1.
NermeenShaikh: Today we’re joined by a man
described as one of the world’s greatest living politicalfilmmakers, CostaGavras.
Born inGreece eightyyearsago in1933, CostaGavras has won twoAcademyAwards for
his films, Z and Missing. His other films include StateOfSiege, Amen.,
MusicBox, TheConfession, HannaK. and Betrayed. For nearlyfivedecades, CostaGavras
has tackled some of the key politicalissues of the day. Z was a drama
looselybased on the1963assassination of a greek left-wing activist. The opening
credits to the film read: "Any resemblance to real events, to persons
living or dead, is not accidental. It is DELIBERATE." Missing, his 1982film
starring Jack Lemmon and SissySpacek, told the story of american journalist
CharlesHorman, who was abducted and killed after GeneralAugustoPinochet came to
power inChile in aUSbacked coup.
2.
Goodman: In his film StateOfSiege, CostaGavras
looked at the controversial role ofUSAID, theUnitedStatesAgencyForInternationalDevelopment,
in Latin America. The film was based on the kidnapping and murder of aUSofficial
namedDanMitrione, who taught torture to uruguayan officers. The film was
toocontroversial forWashington. A screening at
theKennedyCenterForThePerformingArts in1972 was cancelled. Today, at the
age of80, CostaGavras is still going strong. His latest film, Capital, tells
the story of aCEO of a large bank, who lays off many of the employees and
brokers, a corrupt deal with the head of an american hedgefund. This is the
film’strailer.
3.
[skip]
4.
Goodman: Capital, the new film by the
legendary filmmaker, CostaGavras. He joins us here in our NewYorkstudio. Welcome
toDemocracy Now. It’s an honour to have you with us.
5.
Gavras: Thank you.
6.
Goodman: So tell us aboutCapital.
7.
Gavras: Capital is a movie about money, of
course, but essentially it’s about humanbeings, and how they’re affected by the
money, because I believe, since a couple of decades, evenmore, the money
becomes a kind ofReligion in our societies. And we speak, and theEthics getting
moreandmoreweaker, and the money is gettingbiggerandbigger. And we have
moreandmore poor people and moreandmore rich people, and the middleclass is
just shrinking.
8.
NermeenShaikh: Did you decide to make the film
after the2008financialcrisis?
9.
Gavras: No, I started before, several years
before. During the crisis, we were writing the script, and we decided not to
speak about it, except for just oneline, when someone asks, How is the budgetcrisis?
And the answer was, is, We didn’t get, we didn’t reach yet the. No, the worst
is about to come.
10.
Goodman: In this scene from your film,
Capital, the character MarcTourneuil, head of a large french investmentfirm,
meets with men from the american hedgefund who want to buy him out.
11.
[skip]
12.
Goodman: And there you have that scene fromCapital.
Tell us the storyline, CostaGavras.
13.
Gavras: The storyline, it’s, MarcTourneuil, he’s
just an employee in the bank. And they push them up to thehighestpoint, so they
put him up there just for a while, and he decides to stay. And he does
everything he can to stay up there. That’s generally the story. And he becomes,
he’s a good man in the beginning, and little by little he becomes a kind of
sympathetic monster.
14.
Goodman: And you base this on a book.
15.
Gavras: It’s based
on a book written by someone who was in the bankingsystem, and he ran away,
because he was verytired and with disgust, and he did that book. But I
had to change a few things, in particular the end, because at the end, the
character in the book was punished. And I think this is notveryreal, what’s
going on. No banker has been in prison since all the problems we have with
them. So I, at the end, he keeps being an important person in the bankingsystem.
16.
NermeenShaikh: And you researched the film
over many years.
17.
Gavras: Yes.
18.
NermeenShaikh: So, what are some of the things
that you found out about the banking industry and about the finance world, as
you did this research?
19.
Gavras: I found out that there is no, they are
working, they are legal. Everything they do there is legal. Everybody accepts them. And finally, they do verynegative things for the
society most of the time. And you know that inAmerica, when a lot of people
lost their houses, because of the way the banks, bankers and the banking system
was working.
20.
NermeenShaikh: One of the things that you make a
distinction, you make a veryclear distinction in the film between europeanstyleCapitalism
and americanCapitalism. Do you think that distinction is as clear now?
21.
Gavras: Yes, it used to be, but it’s less and
less, because they don’t accept the regulations. Everybody says we need
regulations all over, but there is no regulations in the americansystem. So
they say inEurope, We should get rid of our regulations, and they do, because
if we keep them, the american bankingsystem so strong, will eat us.
22.
Goodman: In this scene fromCapital, we see the
family of character MarcTourneuil confront him while they’re having dinner
together.
23.
[skip]
24.
Goodman: TheCEO’sfamily has conscience, CostaGavras.
25.
Gavras: Yes, particularly an uncle, who is
probably verylefty, probably a communist, and with different ideals years ago,
and everything fell apart. So, his nephew says, We’re doing the good job today,
because he believes what he do, he’s convinced that it is a good thing to do.
26.
NermeenShaikh: Well, you explore also in the
film various forms of resistance to the, let’s call it the americanisation of frenchCapitalism.
How do you see that playing out in the rest ofEurope, in other places, as well?
27.
Gavras: It’s thesame all over. It’s thesame.
It’s the really modernisation of that, of the american system. There is no
doubt of that.
28.
NermeenShaikh: Because what do you see as some of
the effects of that system inEurope?
29.
Gavras: The effects, you can see them in what’s
going on inSpain, inGreece, inPortugal. I mean, there was this huge debt, and
we have more and more, as I was saying before, moreandmore poor people and
moreandmore rich people, and the middleclass is about to disappear.
30.
Goodman: When you made this film, among the
places you made it was Miami. That was your firsttime there?
31.
Gavras: Yes, it was. And I was, I was reallysurprised to see how many private boats there are
there. The boat we used there, it costs something like 60millionsUSD, and there
is tens, hundreds of them.
32.
Goodman: We’re going to break, and when we
come back, we’re going to talk about some of your other films and your plans
for a new film about Greece, deeplytroubled right now. We’re speaking with the
worldrenowned greekfrench filmmaker, CostaGavras. Among his films, Missing,
about the coup inChile, which just passed thefortiethanniversary, as well as Z.
And we’ll talk about these and more. Stay with us.
33.
Goodman: That music composed by the greek
musician MikisTheodorakis. It was the score of CostaGavras’s [1969]movie, Z. In
fact, Theodorakis was imprisoned, imprisoned by the greekDictatorship during
the time that CostaGavras was making his famed politicalthriller. This is
DemocracyNow, democracynow.org, TheWarAndPeaceReport. I’m AmyGoodman, withNermeenShaikh.
And our guest for the hour is CostaGavras. Before we talk about-Z and -Missing,
StateOfSiege and others of your films, talk about where you were born and why
you left Greece, CostaGavras.
34.
Gavras: I was born in the south ofGreece inPeloponnese, but
after the german occupation, we came toAthens. All the family came toAthens.
And thefirstthing my family would like to do was send me to theUnitedStates,
because my mother had a brother here and some uncles inMilwaukee. So I tried to
go there, but there was no way to have a visa to come to theUnitedStates,
because my father has done the resistance against germans with leftwing people,
and it was against the king. So, I.
35.
Goodman: And this was what year?
36.
Gavras: This was in 50, 51, 52. That's right.
And then I decided.
37.
Goodman: Resistance against theNazis.
38.
Gavras: Yes.
39.
Goodman: Was going to prevent you from coming
into theUnitedStates?
40.
Gavras: In a certain way, yes. Certainly it was
of the position of my father, because the family and the kids, those are guys, they
could not go to the university inGreece. They have to present a certificate for
the good behaviour of their parents or their fathers, so it was impossible to
go to university to study. So I had to go toFrance, because inFrance the
studies are free. They used to be and still are a lot of help for the students.
41.
NermeenShaikh: So to what extent did your
father’spoliticalorientation and his resistance influence the direction that
your films took?
42.
Gavras: Probably did, but I don’t want to
know about that.
43.
Goodman: So, you really got your training
inParis, inFrance.
44.
Gavras: InParis, absolutely.
45.
Goodman: Otherwise, you would have become
aHollywoodfilmmaker, if theUS had let you in.
46.
Gavras: Nobody knows who I would be if was
coming to theUnitedStates.
47.
Goodman: So talk about your influences inParis,
what it meant to come of age with french film.
48.
Gavras: I was veryverylucky to meet people like-SimoneSignoret,
-YvesMontand and JorgeSemprún and some other.
49.
Goodman: YvesMontand, the famous actor.
50.
Gavras: Absolutely, famous actor. And his
wife was also a famous actress, working here and there. And I went in a group
with extraordinary people, and I was verylucky. And I learned a lot about life,
aboutPolitics and aboutMovies also.
51.
NermeenShaikh: You’ve alsosaid that films are
alwayspolitical, regardless of the director’sintention. Could you explain what
you mean by that? In other words, even if the film is notexplicitlyaboutPolitics,
it’s stillpolitical?
52.
Gavras: Yes. It’s enough to see why, how the
movies are made and what they show. I mean, I used to say that some of the
movies, what just are actionmovies, that indirectly, or evendirectly sometimes,
they teach young people that violence is necessary in
society, or that kind of things. But they don’t often be political. The
idea is how, the effect they have on the young people.
53.
Goodman: Let’s talk aboutZ, which had a
profound effect on people all over the world. I want to play a clip from the
famous openingsequence ofZ. This is the chiefofpolice addressing a meeting ofGovernmentofficials
on the dangers of the left.
54.
[skip]
55.
Goodman: From the openingsequence
ofCostaGavras’sZ. And at the beginning of that film, you famously play the
opening credits, saying, "Any resemblance to real events, to persons living
or dead, is not accidental. It is DELIBERATE."
56.
Gavras: Deliberate.
57.
Goodman: Explain what happens in this film.
58.
Gavras: In this film, the royal family and
some military decided to eliminate a new politician who was proposing a new way
ofPolitics inGreece, because in that period, it was theColdWar, have left,
extreme left, the communists, and then the right. And he was proposing a
different way, a middle way, with no war, with no military spendings and so
forth. And they decided to, to kill him. And they create a small system. They
kill him. And then, the story, I mean, the fact will completelydisappear,
except we have a good judge, who went through. He was a rightwingjudge, and his
father was one of important militarists, and he decided to establishJustice.
And he went on and on, and he, that’s the story, about that judge and the way
he acted.
59.
NermeenShaikh: Well, let’s turn to part of
the trailer forZ. The film was banned inGreece
under the military junta that ruled from1967to1974.
60.
[skip]
61.
NermeenShaikh: That was an excerpt from your
film, the trailer of your film, Z. So could you explain why is it that the film
is in french, you made the decision to make the film in french?
62.
Gavras: Because there was no way to make it
in greek, in Greece.
63.
NermeenShaikh: Would that have been your
preference?
64.
Gavras: Essentially, yes, because it was a greek
story. Then I had to make in french with french actors, who are veryimportant
actors who decided to play the movie. And we didn’t have so much money, either.
And we were able to make it reallyveryeasily because of the famous actors I
have in the movie.
65.
Goodman: LikeYvesMontand.
66.
Gavras: LikeYvesMontand.
67.
Goodman: PlayingGrigorisLambrakis.
68.
Gavras: Absolutely.
69.
Goodman: Explain both Lambrakis.
70.
Gavras: Yes.
71.
Goodman: His significance, and also just the
music we were just listening to underlying the film. MikisTheodorakis
was in prison during this time.
72.
Gavras: Yes, was in prison. And there was no way
to have him make the music, so, but I contact him through a friend, and he said
to me, Just take music from all my music. Take the pieces you need. And so I
did.
73.
Goodman: Why was he in
prison?
74.
Gavras: Because the
militaryGovernment didn’t like him, because he was considered like being a
lefty.
75.
NermeenShaikh: But you pointed out.
76.
Gavras: Against them.
77.
NermeenShaikh: It was difficult to get
financing for this film.
78.
Gavras: Yes, it was verydifficult. We have
done the movie without being paid, all of us, and some of them major actors
like-YvesMontand and -JeanLouisTrintignant.
79.
NermeenShaikh: And apparently a number of the
majorHollywoodstudios said that politicalfilms are always poison at the boxoffice.
80.
Gavras: That’s right, and nobody would like
to produce the movie. And finally, we did it. And it was a surprise for all of
us, even for us, that it was that kind of huge success all over the world. You
know, at the end of the movie, the audiences all over the world, they were
applauding. It was really something verynew.
81.
Goodman: And you won theOscar for this for
bestforeignfilm.
82.
Gavras: Yes, foreignfilms, and for editing
also. We had a lot of, fiveorsixnominations, if I remember.
83.
Goodman: So, the significance of this,
although you don’t like to talk about politicalfilmmaking, that a politicalfilm
like this, that was banned in your own country, couldn’t be seen at this time,
was winning theAcademyAward and being acknowledged in the rest of the world?
84.
Gavras: Yeah, there’s no contradiction. I
think people like the movie. The voters for theAcademyAward like the movie, so
they voted for it.
85.
NermeenShaikh: Your screenwriter, your coscreenwriter
for the film has said that the film has significance far beyond the particular
situation that was represented in it. He said, Let’s not try to reassure
ourselves. This type of thing doesn’t only happen elsewhere; it happens
everywhere. So do you see a certain universal theme inZ?
86.
Gavras: Yes, because, essentially, the
militaryGovernment used to control theJustice, control the police and control
theArmy. And if in aDemocracy you do that, there is no Democracy anymore. And
this happens in a lot of countries around the world, even today, something like
fortyyearslater.
87.
Goodman: The, one of the opening scenes, the preparing
for the big politicalrally, a hall, says.
88.
Gavras: Right.
89.
Goodman: To the organisers of the, this greek
protest, Get out of here. There are peace signs everywhere.
90.
Gavras: Right.
91.
Goodman: I don’t care. I don’t want your
money.
92.
Gavras: It was the great period of asking for
peace everywhere, because there were military bases all over the world. The russians
were preparing a big war with atomicbombs. The americans, they were doing
thesamething from their part. And so, the big fear was to have an atomic war,
which would be a total catastrophe for theEarth.
93.
Goodman: And so we move forward decades.
94.
Gavras: Right.
95.
Goodman: And you have just finishedCapital,
but you’re moving on now to make a film about your own country. I mean, you
have lived for decades in France.
96.
Gavras: Yes.
97.
Goodman: But you’re now going to be looking atGreece.
98.
Gavras: I’m trying. I’m trying to find, to write
a script to make a movie there, because I am verycurious what’s, what is
happening there and to show also how the greek people, the majority of the greek
people, suffer with that crisis, yes.
99.
Goodman: Let’s talk about what’s happening there
for a minute. The greekGovernment has launched a probe of the neoNazi GoldenDawnparty in the aftermath of the killing of a prominent hiphopmusician.
RapperPavlosFyssas
was stabbed to death by aGoldenDawnsupporter outside a cafe last month,
the murder sparking a new wave of protests againstGoldenDawn, which placed
third in lastyear’s greek election. On monday, greek parliamentarians condemned
the party. This is CommunistPartylawmaker, LianaKanelli.
100.
The problem is not deciding if they’re a gang or
not. I think that everybody has already understood that they are. They are
brutal, bestial, like all theNazis, by birth. If you, if you want to be a Nazi,
then you can’t be anything else but a beast. The problem is now to convince
people that they’ve never been, they are not, and they will never be the
solution of any of the popular problems.
101.
Goodman: CostaGavras?
102.
Gavras: This fascist group, who are still in. If
you see the movie, still in the, inZ, you can see them. But it’s, at that time,
it was a smaller group. And because of the crisis,
the group grew up enormously, because they’re promising changes inGreece, to
save theGreece from the crisis, which is completelyfake. So, some people are so
unhappy, so miserable, so they think they can find solutions by voting these
people. But they’re reallyfascist, like theNazis used to be.
103.
NermeenShaikh: Have you spent any time inGreece
during the protests, when the protests were occurring?
104.
Gavras: Yes, I were there sometime, yes. I see
how the protest was big, and people trying to say you have to stop with them, to
stop them. And finally, theGovernment decided to stop them. We’ll see if it
will continue, see how far that’s going to go.
105.
Goodman: We got word out that you were going to
be the guest on our show for the hour, and people were writing in from all over
the world questions. On our Facebookpage, MichaelClark posted this question for you, CostaGavras.
He said, “Mr.CostaGavras, what is the solution forGreece to free herself from
the banksters, IMF, EU and her corrupt politicians.”
106.
Gavras: You know, a
filmmaker doesn’t have solutions. He has questions, and that’s all. I
mean, the solutions have to be found from the politicians, from people who we vote
for, and also theEuropeanCommunity and others. I don’t have the solution. The
problem inGreece is verycomplex, but it’s veryreal for the people.
107.
NermeenShaikh: Do you think now, depending on what
shape your film takes now onGreece, your future project, is it easier or harder
to get financing for films of this kind?
108.
Gavras: It is harder. It is hard, and it’s a big
fight.
109.
NermeenShaikh: Even inEurope?
110.
Gavras: Even inEurope. But in France, we have a
system which makes the whole thing much easier.
111.
Goodman: Which is what?
112.
Gavras: Which is we will receive help from, small
help from theState. But also theTelevisionchannels, they are obliged to coproduce
movies. So they’re coproducing also movies.
113.
Goodman: Ah, that’s fascinating. I wanted to
go fromGreece, fromEurope, to latinAmerica, where you have also done a number
of verypowerful films. This is the trailer for CostaGavras’s 1982 Oscarwinning
film, Missing, which followsEdHorman, the father of U.S. journalist
CharlesHorman, as he goes toChile amidst the bloodshed of the coup to join his
daughterinlaw, who’s played bySissySpacek, JoyceHorman is the woman, in the
search for his son.
114.
[skip]
115.
Goodman: From the trailer, Missing, theOscarwinning
film of 1982. We just passed thefortiethanniversary of theUSbacked coup in
Chile, another September11, 1973, backed byPresidentNixon, by SecretaryOfStateKissinger,
byITT. Who wasCharles Horman, and why did you decide to make this film? You
have these great actors, JackLemmon, SissySpacek.
116.
Gavras: I was, Jack Lemmon accepted to make
the movie. That was a really big, I was verylucky. The story is of a young, the
story ofMissing is a young american who goes toChile in the period ofAllende. And
when he gets there, thesameday, Allende has decided to give one liter of milk
to every poor child. So, as a youngamerican, veryromantic.
117.
Goodman: So thePresident ofChile is giving
milk to every poor child.
118.
Gavras: To every poor child. So, this young,
very romantic American says, This is a great system. So he decides to stay. And
he stays, and he works, and he’s a little bit a filmmaker, a little bit also
journalist. And the day of the coup, he meets American officials and
militaries, and he discovers that something wrong is going on, and then, a few
days later, disappearscompletely during the coup. And his father goes down
there to find him. JackLemmon played the part. And his father, who voted forNixon
over that time, and he didn’t like his son. He thought his son was a kind of
failure, because he was an artist and that kind of thing. He is furious against
him. But little by little, he discovers that his son was a good person, and his
country was doing down there something verynegative. That’s the whole story. And
as I was saying, I was reallyhappy to haveJackLemmon, who decided to play it,
because he was extraordinary, asSissySpacek.
119.
Goodman: I was just withJackLemmon’sson at a fortiethanniversary
of the coupevent, who talked about how deeplymeaningful this film was for him.
And, I mean, he was really considered a comedic actor. How did you see beyond
that, CostaGavras, to say, I wantJackLemmon to playCharlesHorman’sfather?
120.
Gavras: Well, thefirstmeeting we have
inUniversal inHollywood, I said that I would likeJackLemmon. Everybody was
curious. They say, JackLemmon? Are we doing a comedy? Said, No, he’s a great
artist. He played some good movies, like theSaveTheTiger, for example, or ApartmentThe.
And he could be, and there was a real fight. And after a while, the
producer, EdLewis,
said, Okay, let’s take, if he likesJackLemmon, let’s haveJackLemmon. And it
was great, because he, apart of the, he won awards in theCannesfestival and in
some other festivals, and particularly, he was so good, so real, like an american
of, middleclassamerican.
121.
NermeenShaikh: One of your producers has
apparentlysaid that it would be impossible to make the film Missing now. Is
that right?
122.
Gavras: Yes, it is. Yes.
123.
NermeenShaikh: Why?
124.
Gavras: [inaudible] say that. Because now
Hollywood is completelydifferent. What they’re doing now, they’re doing those
big, big movies with specialeffects and a lot of action, a lot of killing, and
that kind of things. There’s a few good movies they start now, because I
believe Hollywood understands that it’s enough with that kind of monsters
they’re doing.
125.
Goodman: I want to go back toMissing. When we
seeJoyceHorman, the widow ofUSjournalist, CharlesHorman, though she doesn’t
know she’s a widow at that time, she is calledBeth and played bySissySpacek.
Joyce was verynervous about someone making a film, and she wanted to distance
herself, though she recently told me, when she went to Mexico, where you were
making the film, she was just astounded by what you were doing and was changing
her mind at that time. She and Jack Lemmon, who plays CharlesHorman’sfather Ed,
go to theChilestadium where they’re allowed to get on the loudspeaker and ask
if he’s there. Thousands of sympathizers of oustedPresident SalvadorAllende
were rounded up and taken to the stadium in the days following
theSeptember11.1973coup.
126.
Goodman: What a scene, now calledVíctorJaraStadium.
127.
Gavras: Yes.
128.
Goodman: VíctorJara, the great folk singer, who died
also at that time right near the stadium. As we wrap up this part of the
discussion, we want to talk aboutStateOfSiege after break. You made this inMexico.
You couldn’t make this during the coup. And now, the latest news, RayDavis, who was
responsible for the death ofCharlesHorman, he may well have died inChile
recently. It’s notclear. I sawJoyce just the other night at the premiere of
your film, Capital, and she’s saying she needs to be convinced; theUSEmbassy is
not even, she feels, coming clean on this, so many decades later.
129.
Gavras: Yes, they tried to have all the evidence
about what happened that day toCharles, but the americanGovernment didn’t give
to them. So it’s still, the case is still pending, in a
certain way.
130.
NermeenShaikh: How was the film received in
theUS when it first came out?
131.
Gavras: Verywell. Verywell for some people.
Verybadly for some other people.
132.
Goodman: CostaGavras is our guest for the
hour, the world-renowned greek-French filmmaker. When we come back, we’re going
to look at State of Siege, State of Siege about aUSofficial in latinAmerica
involved with torture. He was kidnapped, and he himself was murdered. We’re
also going to talk about his film on a past pope. Stay with us.
133.
Goodman: The music again by the greek
musician MikisTheodorakis for the score of CostaGavras’s 1972movie StateOfSiege.
Theodorakis was free by then. This is DemocracyNow, democracynow.org, TheWarAndPeaceReport.
CostaGavras for the hour. I’m AmyGoodman, withNermeenShaikh.
134.
NermeenShaikh: So let’s go to a clip from
CostaGavras’s 1972film, StateOfSiege. The film was based on the kidnapping and
murder of aUSofficial named DanMitrione, who taught torture to uruguayan
officers. Here, the USAID worker, his character in the film is PhilipMichaelSantore,
is being interrogated by one of his kidnappers about his work with the
country’s repressive police force.
135.
[skip]
136.
NermeenShaikh: That was a clip from
CostaGavras’s 1972 film, extremelycontroversial film, StateOfSiege. So, CostaGavras,
could you talk about the story behind this film? Who was DanMitrione?
137.
Gavras: DanMitrione was an official working inUruguay,
and he was supposed to be there to help theAgriculture and other and universities
and so forth. And theTupamaros
were a kind of lefty movement, revolutionary movement, but verypeaceful
by the time. They kidnapped him, and they, because they have discovered that he
was teaching the police how torture and how change the policesystem. And they
kidnapped him and asked him to liberate a lot of prisoners. If not, they will
kill him. But theGovernment decided not to liberate prisoners, and they had to
kill him. That was the first veryvery, an action which was so negative that,
little by little, after that, unfortunately, they disappear. So that’s, in
general terms, the story.
138.
Goodman: And why did you choose to take on
this story?
139.
Gavras: I liked this story because it looks
verymuch like a greek story, but it happened in latinAmerica. So I would like
to show that this was thesamething, in a certain way. Because most of those
advisers at that time, they’re supposed to be verypeaceful, verynice, but most
of them, they were doing something negative. Even verynegative.
140.
Goodman: And it was verycontroversial when it
came out.
141.
Gavras: Verynegative, verycontroversial
everywhere, and particularly theUnitedStates. But the movie was shown here. And
it was also coproduced with an american company. And it went around the world.
142.
NermeenShaikh: So I want to ask also
veryquickly, before we conclude, about your 2002 film, Amen., which looks at
the links between theVatican and NaziGermany. The central character is a NaziSSofficer
employed at theHygieneInstitute who learns the process he develops to eradicate
typhus is being used for killing jews in exterminationcamps. He attempts to
notify the pope but gets little response from theCatholichierarchy.
143.
[skip]
144.
NermeenShaikh: That was an excerpt from your
film, Amen. So, could you talk about what you revealed or wanted to reveal in
that film, and that pope and the pope we have now?
145.
Gavras: Yeah, the, I mean, the truth is that
the pope knew everything about the extermination of the Jews, and for fouryears
he didn’t say a word against that. And he was the mostimportantperson in the
world at that time, and he didn’t speak about that. Instead, a young priest and
a german officer that knew about that, they tried to inform the embassies in
all the world, and risking their lives. That’s the whole story. It’s a story
about resistance, how people resist in a kind of situation like this one.
146.
Goodman: Something your father did.
147.
Gavras: Yes, yes, and with a lot of risk, as
well.
148.
Goodman: And your, the pope today?
149.
Gavras: Oh, I think he’s a good pope. It’s a
major change. It’s surprising to listen to him, to read what he says about theChurch
and the change it has to do. I think it’s, I think also thefirsttime in theHistory
of theChurch, theCatholicChurch, that the pope speaks about money and says money
is not so important, humanbeings are important. This is verynew.
150.
Goodman: Which brings us back to your film
Capital, and that is airing now all, opening, premiering around theUnitedStates.
We thank you so much, CostaGavras, for being our guest for the hour, worldrenowned
greekfrench filmmaker. His films include StateOfSiege, Missing, EdenIsWest,
theAcademyAwardwinning Z, as well as Missing. His most recent film, now just
opening in theUnitedStates, Capital, opens here inNewYork[City] october25th and
inLosAngeles and other cities on november1st. That does it for our show. I’ll
be atPrincetonUniversity thursday 5PM. Check our website for democracy.org.
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