A series of stupid questions or
stupid objections as is usual with this cunt on BBC.
1.
American Presidents have long been criticised
for being too in thrall to the Jewish lobby. The American Jews influence US Foreign
Policy, and that explains Washington’s unwavering support for Israel. So what
happens if American Jews fall out of love with Israel? That is what the Jewish
American academic Norman Finkelstein claims is happening. But then he is
nothing if not controversial. After all, he is famous for accusing Jews of
exploiting the Holocaust. And his actions have so incensed Israel, it has
banned him from entering the country. Could he be right, and if he is what does
that mean for Middle East policy? [Very noisy music.] Norman Finkelstein,
welcome to HARDtalk.
2.
What is the evidence that American Jews are
falling out of love with Israel?
3.
Given Israel’s troubled History, you are arguing
that there is something more significant going on than has been previously gone
on. Because Goodness knows that there’s been a sort of, there is a waxing and waning
in any relationship. That has happened throughout America-Israel relations in
History.
4.
But even if you were to accept the argument that
they no more. It’s quite a difficult argument to accept, given over the decades
of awful lot of close relasionship. But even if you were to accept that
argument, you look at some surveys, Brandeis University did a survey where they
questioned 1,200 predominantly young Jewish Americans, and they found that basically,
their conclusion was Jewish attachment to Israel was unchanged over 25 years.
5.
In the survey I am quoting, when they ask these
similar similar questions, they found 75% agreed that caring about Israel was
an important part of Jewish identity. What they found was that, Tes, in the
young, there wasn’t a closeness, but as Jewish Americans got older, that attachment
got stronger.
6.
You are putting forward this argument, which
seem to be suggesting they have changed. The argument is, You are not so taken
seriously.
7.
But you have a reputation. You have a reputation
for being difficult, and people discount you in a way that wouldn’t, less
polemical. You say you don’t want to be polemical. But less vitriolic academics.
8.
Why does it matter? There is the argument
actually, So what?
9.
What you’re arguing is, you’re left with this
hardcore. You say they are being with paid by the Israeli Government to get
what they want in Washington?
10.
And you are saying that they are paid by the
Israeli Government to get what they want in Washington?
11.
But they’re not, they’re not. AIPAC would say that
they’re not paid by the Israeli government?
12.
Are you saying they are paid by the Israeli
Government? I just want to.
13.
And it’s very important. You make certain claims
and you make people angry. They wonder if they should listen to the next thing
that you say.
14.
Let’s go to, what you’re suggesting is happening
as a result, that actually you seem to be suggesting that those who would be interested
are no longer caring, and you’re left with is hardcore of passionate people who
from what you are suggesting are basically doing the Israeli government’s
bidding in Washington.
15.
But if the periphery don’t have, then the
American President isn’t going to care.
16.
There’s another thing. You’re talking about
Israel here. Country that is democratic, that decides who is on its Government
through elections. Really, it is down to the Israeli people to elect whom they
want to run their Government. If they want, they can keep them out.
17.
So you’re saying Jews would criticise about
Israel, like settlements, for example. You are saying it is President Obama’s
fault?
18.
If they make an
announcement of freeze?
19.
Exactly.
20.
So your argument is, despite Obamas saying from
the word go and being absolutely clear that Israel should stop all settlements.
21.
But he has.
22.
He has made clear so publicly the American
position.
23.
Back down from what? From
are you saying he’s backed down to Israeli Prime Minister, it is all right?
24.
Okay. So it what you are saying is true, we then
have an diaspora that does not care so much about Israel, how will that change
things?
25.
You say they don’t care, and the argument seems
to be that, if they didn’t care, it might be better. And yet you are trying to
win them over?
26.
This is your dream scenario. You have a problem
there, because here you are. [] You have a History, you have a History, ever since
you wrote about the Holocaust [in] the Holocaust Industry. You said, There is a
fixation on the Holocaust that has exacerbated paranoia, It’s a lucrative and
tendentious industry, The [propagandadist] is lurking in the heart of Evil in
the gentlest of gentile as a homidical anti-Semite. Even where Jews feel safe,
they still face danger. Now, you’ve faced a huge amount of criticism for why you
said in that book. You were labeled a Holocaust denier. Your own parents were in
the Warsaw Ghetto and concentration camps. You went too far, and you can see
some may you consistently go too far, and people say that as a result, your
style, it is self-defeating. Your argument isn’t heard.
27.
Actually what you’re saying isn’t new. There are
plenty of people who make exactly that case, Peter Novik’s book about the
Holocaust. But there is something about the way they, Peter Novick for example,
made the case was more powerful, because they had an understanding, a
sensitivity that was absent in your book. And as a result, your book came
across as a rant. And that is the suggestion about a lot of the arguments you make.
And as a result, you have people like Jonathan Freeland, accusing you of doing
the works of anti-Semites for them, and because you see the Jews as the
villains or victims, he said that, “I fear that it takes him closer to the
people who created the Holocaust than to does he suffered in it.”
28.
I could quote so many other people to you who
have been critical of your work and known as an expert of the Holocaust.
29.
The point is your style, it ends up being self-defeating.
The argument that, for example, you feed the anti-Semites. Do you have any
qualms that you are doing, that you could be doing their work for them?
30.
Do you ever hold back?
31.
Do you ever hold back? Do you ever self-censor?
32.
Yeah, I appreciate.
33.
But I ask you. You make the point that was ten
years ago, and I appreciate that. But recently, you’ve said that Israel is like
a junkie, every few years they go to War, they need their fix, they are
lunatics, American Jews don’t want to defend that.
34.
And Hizbollah [whom] you went to meet?
35.
Israel would point to a number of its neighbours,
and say exactly the same thing?
36.
When you look at the History of Israel, do you
not have some sympathy, or understanding people would ask, why they feel
threatened?
37.
Why is it that Israeli People vote in the
government that you say are responsible for that?
38.
It’s still seen as the safe haven, the homeland for
the Jews. You have a right to leave there, although you are banned. Would you go
back? [This is not about Finkelstein.]
39.
It is very hard to reconcile that statement
about lack of feelings towards the country, the fact that it has been the
centre of your work for decades.
40.
And the question of identity? I asked you about
whether you would go back?
41.
Every year you used to go to Israel. Do you feel
any connection to it as a Jew?
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